More on Vernon getting arse fucked by Louis...
I don't want to get into a big pissing match with Steve at Magicrants, but I'm going to reply to his views on my recent Vernon post.
He's copied and pasted some of what I said and then given his response, and now I am going to do likewise, but to ensure it makes sense I am copying the bits I said too. So to make it clear I will use Italics for what he is saying and prefix with 'MR' for 'MagicRants', bold italics for the bits that were originally said by me, prefixed with 'MW' and then normal font to reply. I hope that makes sense.
MW: It’s fairly well known that in his later years Vernon had a hard time saying ‘no’ to anyone. That’s why so many books that were put out in those days had forewords by Vernon.”
MR: That’s not my understanding. Maybe he didn’t say ‘no’ because he genuinely wanted to contribute to various projects. Maybe he didn’t say ‘no’ because he wanted the money.
But either way, he still had trouble saying NO as you admit right there. And, that's not how I understand it either.
Vernon was OLD..he pissed his pants at a party and had to be taken out and took home. Jennings took care of him most of the time at the same time these books were coming out and the forewards and accolades of lesser magicians. Now, why do you think he couldnt say No?
MW: “Vernon liked the way L&L put his books together (and I agree they did a fine job) and agreed to sign sheets that could be bound into all future editions. I’m sure he spent a bunch of his twilight years signing sheets of paper.”
MR: With that statement, he’s implying that the signature pages were bound into these books. They were not - he signed the actual books.
No, I realize that he signed the actual books that were published while he was alive. But I know for a fact that he signed a lot of what they call 'tip in' sheets to be bound into future Vernon books. Louis Falanga admited this in an L&L presents flyer which I can scan if you need to see it. How do you think he pulled signed copies of The Inner card trilogy out of his ass 5-6 years after Vernon died? And the provenance of the autographs are not the issue here anyway.
MW: “I don’t have a problem with collectors wanting first editions either, but what L&L have done is to pretty much ensure the standard editions of these books aren’t about.”
MR: The decline in book purchases is what is keeping the standard editions from being printed. You’re talking about printing between 1,000 - 2,000 of each volume. That’s a big investment for something that will take years to pay for itself considering the state of the magic book market.
Then stop flooding the market with shitty dvds, Louis.
MW: “Having dried up the supply of this mans work they then pump out 23 limited edition sets at almost a grand a piece.”
MR: Again, this is a very misleading statement. These books were not “pumped out”. They have been in existence for the past 20 years.
Sorry, they have exsisted for 20 years. So, why sell them now for a small fortune? Doesn't that seem off to hold onto to something that long only to attach an inflated price to it years later... sorry I said 'pumped out' ..I should have said 'PIMPED'.
MW: “So basically if you didn’t have a set of Vernon books and wanted one you now had to shell out a thousand bucks for the privilage. But as a bonus you did get some other stuff, but this is all utter garbage anyway.”
MR: The standard edition of these books are not hard to find and if you were determined to get them, I bet you could find them within a month through the used book sites and ebay. The bonus items may be garbage to you, but for the 23 people who made the purchase, obviously it wasn’t.
But Louis is not keeping the books readily availible and thats my point which are proving for me. Also, you know as well as I do that the 23 people that bought those sets are NOT students. They will probably never open the books, wont read them and dont intend to study them. They are collectors. This set appeals and is priced only toward collectors. Of course they are happy with the purchase. They expect to get a bigger return or at least $1000 worth of bragging rights at owning it. It's fucking stupid to say that they are satisfied with it.
MW: “Louis should be ashamed of himself, he exploited and old man and now he’s raping the mans legacy and keeping important works out of the hands of those who Vernon would have wanted to see it.”
MR: Interesting comment considering L&L owns the books and the rights to them. This is the same attitude young illusionists have when they can’t afford to buy a Jim Steinmeyer illusion. Will the standard editions be published again? I don’t know. I imagine one day they will be, but right now it’s a smart business decision not to republish them when there isn’t a market to sell 1000 copies. So L&L is “whoring” Vernon, what about this book seller who is selling a set for $5000? Give me a break!
Yes he is a whore..only concerned with profit. You said it yourself, they are a bussiness and well and good because he was a failed magician who had one pathetic book with .... a foreward by Dai Vernon prasing him!
No it's not even remotely close to the Steinmeyer illusion comparison. Not at all. Illusions cost money because there is a lot of work that goes into building ONE model. Books cost big money because Louis says so. I'm not going to run myself off a copy of the Vernon Chronicles at my local Kinko's because I can't afford it either. Nor would I do that to Jim Steinmeyer. Please stop being an idiot.
Yes, Im sure they will be republished when L&L have sucked every last dollar they can from what they have to sell. Sure if you want to say the book seller you linked is a whore, fine. I don't approve of any of it. But, its moron collectors that can't even hold a deck properly and will pay $5000 for a load of prostitution that pay your web designer salary!
I didn't know about the Sherwood cups but thanks for bringing it to my attention. They are just as big cunts as L&L.
And as for some of the dickhead comments that the post on Magicrants got to their blog...
Fred Zimmerman said this:
My question is this; when did having easy and cheap access to magical secrets become basic right? You would think L&L pulled Vernon’s feeding tube and is now keeping food out of the mouths of starving children.
It's not about having access to magic secrets being a right. Vernon cared about his legacy, he wanted his stuff out there. And if some magician put out something that was based on a Vernon idea but was independant reinvention, he'd get crucified. But is it his fault if the works of such an important figurehead of magic are not available or accessible to those who love the magic art?
Why is it shit like the Chris Kenner book and Ortiz and Sankey stay in print while we can't keep 10 books by the most famous fucking magician ever in print? How damn hard is it to cut the budget of 6 more dvds featuring a hillbilly with cards and a fat bald fuck horsing with rope and keep some classics available!?
Actually that's a redundant question - the answer is MONEY. And yes I know L&L is a business and there is nothing wrong with making a profit, but when you seriously fuck about with the art of magic and the legacy of a man like Vernon, you are just being a cunt.
And the advice Frank Zimmerman offers on what to do if you can't afford the Vernon books is the most fucking stupid thing I've ever heard:
Zimmerman: My advice to those who cannot afford the Vernon books (I used to own them and then gave them a friend because I longer needed or used them) I say, “Get a deck of cards, some rings, coins, and other assorted apparatus, and work out some magic ON YOUR OWN.”
That's like saying "If you can't afford a book on home improvements, get some tools and have a fucking crack at it anyway - invent your own methods - good luck". Or.. "If you can't afford a book on first aid, just guess how the human body works and have a go next time someone collapses in the street - invent your own life saving techniques".
I stopped reading Zimmermans comments after that first bit - he's a fucking moron.
MW.
He's copied and pasted some of what I said and then given his response, and now I am going to do likewise, but to ensure it makes sense I am copying the bits I said too. So to make it clear I will use Italics for what he is saying and prefix with 'MR' for 'MagicRants', bold italics for the bits that were originally said by me, prefixed with 'MW' and then normal font to reply. I hope that makes sense.
MW: It’s fairly well known that in his later years Vernon had a hard time saying ‘no’ to anyone. That’s why so many books that were put out in those days had forewords by Vernon.”
MR: That’s not my understanding. Maybe he didn’t say ‘no’ because he genuinely wanted to contribute to various projects. Maybe he didn’t say ‘no’ because he wanted the money.
But either way, he still had trouble saying NO as you admit right there. And, that's not how I understand it either.
Vernon was OLD..he pissed his pants at a party and had to be taken out and took home. Jennings took care of him most of the time at the same time these books were coming out and the forewards and accolades of lesser magicians. Now, why do you think he couldnt say No?
MW: “Vernon liked the way L&L put his books together (and I agree they did a fine job) and agreed to sign sheets that could be bound into all future editions. I’m sure he spent a bunch of his twilight years signing sheets of paper.”
MR: With that statement, he’s implying that the signature pages were bound into these books. They were not - he signed the actual books.
No, I realize that he signed the actual books that were published while he was alive. But I know for a fact that he signed a lot of what they call 'tip in' sheets to be bound into future Vernon books. Louis Falanga admited this in an L&L presents flyer which I can scan if you need to see it. How do you think he pulled signed copies of The Inner card trilogy out of his ass 5-6 years after Vernon died? And the provenance of the autographs are not the issue here anyway.
MW: “I don’t have a problem with collectors wanting first editions either, but what L&L have done is to pretty much ensure the standard editions of these books aren’t about.”
MR: The decline in book purchases is what is keeping the standard editions from being printed. You’re talking about printing between 1,000 - 2,000 of each volume. That’s a big investment for something that will take years to pay for itself considering the state of the magic book market.
Then stop flooding the market with shitty dvds, Louis.
MW: “Having dried up the supply of this mans work they then pump out 23 limited edition sets at almost a grand a piece.”
MR: Again, this is a very misleading statement. These books were not “pumped out”. They have been in existence for the past 20 years.
Sorry, they have exsisted for 20 years. So, why sell them now for a small fortune? Doesn't that seem off to hold onto to something that long only to attach an inflated price to it years later... sorry I said 'pumped out' ..I should have said 'PIMPED'.
MW: “So basically if you didn’t have a set of Vernon books and wanted one you now had to shell out a thousand bucks for the privilage. But as a bonus you did get some other stuff, but this is all utter garbage anyway.”
MR: The standard edition of these books are not hard to find and if you were determined to get them, I bet you could find them within a month through the used book sites and ebay. The bonus items may be garbage to you, but for the 23 people who made the purchase, obviously it wasn’t.
But Louis is not keeping the books readily availible and thats my point which are proving for me. Also, you know as well as I do that the 23 people that bought those sets are NOT students. They will probably never open the books, wont read them and dont intend to study them. They are collectors. This set appeals and is priced only toward collectors. Of course they are happy with the purchase. They expect to get a bigger return or at least $1000 worth of bragging rights at owning it. It's fucking stupid to say that they are satisfied with it.
MW: “Louis should be ashamed of himself, he exploited and old man and now he’s raping the mans legacy and keeping important works out of the hands of those who Vernon would have wanted to see it.”
MR: Interesting comment considering L&L owns the books and the rights to them. This is the same attitude young illusionists have when they can’t afford to buy a Jim Steinmeyer illusion. Will the standard editions be published again? I don’t know. I imagine one day they will be, but right now it’s a smart business decision not to republish them when there isn’t a market to sell 1000 copies. So L&L is “whoring” Vernon, what about this book seller who is selling a set for $5000? Give me a break!
Yes he is a whore..only concerned with profit. You said it yourself, they are a bussiness and well and good because he was a failed magician who had one pathetic book with .... a foreward by Dai Vernon prasing him!
No it's not even remotely close to the Steinmeyer illusion comparison. Not at all. Illusions cost money because there is a lot of work that goes into building ONE model. Books cost big money because Louis says so. I'm not going to run myself off a copy of the Vernon Chronicles at my local Kinko's because I can't afford it either. Nor would I do that to Jim Steinmeyer. Please stop being an idiot.
Yes, Im sure they will be republished when L&L have sucked every last dollar they can from what they have to sell. Sure if you want to say the book seller you linked is a whore, fine. I don't approve of any of it. But, its moron collectors that can't even hold a deck properly and will pay $5000 for a load of prostitution that pay your web designer salary!
I didn't know about the Sherwood cups but thanks for bringing it to my attention. They are just as big cunts as L&L.
And as for some of the dickhead comments that the post on Magicrants got to their blog...
Fred Zimmerman said this:
My question is this; when did having easy and cheap access to magical secrets become basic right? You would think L&L pulled Vernon’s feeding tube and is now keeping food out of the mouths of starving children.
It's not about having access to magic secrets being a right. Vernon cared about his legacy, he wanted his stuff out there. And if some magician put out something that was based on a Vernon idea but was independant reinvention, he'd get crucified. But is it his fault if the works of such an important figurehead of magic are not available or accessible to those who love the magic art?
Why is it shit like the Chris Kenner book and Ortiz and Sankey stay in print while we can't keep 10 books by the most famous fucking magician ever in print? How damn hard is it to cut the budget of 6 more dvds featuring a hillbilly with cards and a fat bald fuck horsing with rope and keep some classics available!?
Actually that's a redundant question - the answer is MONEY. And yes I know L&L is a business and there is nothing wrong with making a profit, but when you seriously fuck about with the art of magic and the legacy of a man like Vernon, you are just being a cunt.
And the advice Frank Zimmerman offers on what to do if you can't afford the Vernon books is the most fucking stupid thing I've ever heard:
Zimmerman: My advice to those who cannot afford the Vernon books (I used to own them and then gave them a friend because I longer needed or used them) I say, “Get a deck of cards, some rings, coins, and other assorted apparatus, and work out some magic ON YOUR OWN.”
That's like saying "If you can't afford a book on home improvements, get some tools and have a fucking crack at it anyway - invent your own methods - good luck". Or.. "If you can't afford a book on first aid, just guess how the human body works and have a go next time someone collapses in the street - invent your own life saving techniques".
I stopped reading Zimmermans comments after that first bit - he's a fucking moron.
MW.
posted by Mr Whack at
3:09 PM
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